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Duration: 04:12 minutes
Upload Time: 2007-07-17 16:58:43
User: JHBowden
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Description:
Rand is not a philosopher. She knew little about other philosophers, and did not understand basic terminology.
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Comments |
jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:04:48
Where did Rand claim there different types of knowledge and truth, as you seem to imply? If knowledge of any form is not derived at through reason, how is it derived at?
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jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:06:27
Erm, where does she write this? Are there quotes available?
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JHBowden ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:07:43
jiffy2001--
A priori/a posteriori does not concern the "derivation" or genesis of knowledge. It concerns how we justify it. Some knowledge is justified by our intellect. Other knowledge is justified by observation.
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JHBowden ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:09:09
"but refering to a philosophy as a cult is merely sloppy-thinking on your part."
But Objectivism isn't philosophy. Objectivism is to philosophy what astrology is to physics.
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jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:28:01
I don't know if I speak for all admirers of Rand's philosophy, but I couldn't really care less if the whole thing was rip-off; it's the ideas themselves that are important and all that matter in the grand scheme of things. I'm sorry to say that this recurring theme reporting how "so-and-so thought Rand sucked" or "so-and-so thinks Rand is a nazi" only seems to confirm what Rand said about "second-handed" people.
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JHBowden ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:43:33
Well, Rand is a guru for many people. Rand does have solid things to say against victimhood mentality that thinks all action must end in failure, the good of scumbags is more important than our own good, and that nobody has the right to be happy since defeat, frustration, and suffering are the essence of life.
However much I reject victimhood as a way of life, Rand's knowledge of metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, and even other philosophers wasn't even at a newb level.
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jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:45:18
Objectivism sure looks and sounds like a philosophy. That doesn't necessarily mean it's correct, but right or wrong, it's still a philosophy. One thing it is not, however, is a cult. It wouldn't make any difference if it is "what astrology is to physics", that wouldn't essentially make it a cult either.
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JHBowden ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:56:12
No, Objectivism is a cult because its followers believe in their Prophet blindly and faithfully. So not only does Objectivism fail to be a philosophy as a basic intellectual level, it fails even as a system of inquiry. You'll never see people defending Quine or Chisholm with such hardcore devotion-- philosophy is about intellectual exploration, not converting people to The Path.
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BeatBuddy ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:57:13
Often knowledge comes through intuition. When Columbus sailed the Atlantic, he held that the earth was round, but he didn't know that for sure. Copernicus was still a young man and Galileo lay in the future. Pythagoras was suppressed by the Church. Reason, at that time, DID dictate that the world was flat. As it turned out, reason was wrong and intuition was right. It takes more than reason to get anything accomplished.
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BeatBuddy ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 15:57:22
Her philosophy leads to a corporatist kind of totalitarianism, similar in many respects to Huxley's Brave New World, a kind in which the United States is following the yellow brick road.
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jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 16:26:18
So if I were to find examples of followers who didn't believe in their propher blindly and didn't follow with hardcore devotion, where would it leave your argument? You say you never see people defend Quine or Chisholm defended with such hardcore devotion- I've never seen Rand attacked with such rabid ferocity!
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jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 16:28:53
Tour description of reason is wrong and what's "intuition"? I think it was cropperb made a video about the ancient Greeks who discovered the earth was round.
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JHBowden ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 16:35:18
If someone really disagreed with a philosopher I like, such as Husserl or David Stove, well, we can still be friends. Same thing with politics-- I'm somewhere around Lieberman and Giuliani, but if you like someone more liberal or conservative, no big deal. Randies in contrast always take it *personally* when you criticize The Prophet-- which is cult behavior. They're like pop music groupies who get pissed if you disrespect their favorite star.
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JHBowden ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 16:38:11
"I've never seen Rand attacked with such rabid ferocity!"
I haven't either. :p
I know what you meant. Just note it is characteristic of a cult to act persecuted when someone questions the inerrancy of The Prophet. Randies often behave like Christian fundies who act like Satan is oppressing them if you tell them the Earth isn't 6000 years old.
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jiffy2001 ::: Favorites 2007-08-07 16:42:42
When was the last time this philosophy was put into practice in order to result in this corporatist totalitarianism? I don't recall any corporatism in Brave New World, or anything resembling objectivism for that matter; it seems an odd that totalitarianism would result from a government that did nothing other than protect individual rights, which leads me to suspect that you're a socialist of some sort. In which case, consider this debate over.
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